Stashing NHLers in the Minors

[Deleted]

Apr 14, 2016 16:31:14 GMT -5 @alsrevenge said:

This shipped sailed long ago. If you want to do something like this you might as well just start over and redraft a league with whoever remains.

Amen!! I don<t know why this time around would be different. Eric love bringing up the same old topic over and over.

[Deleted]

Apr 14, 2016 16:31:14 GMT -5 @alsrevenge said:

This shipped sailed long ago. If you want to do something like this you might as well just start over and redraft a league with whoever remains.

I even made a compromise and he still didn't like. So let's move on from this topic.

[Deleted]

I would be nice to hear from other GMs before quickly writing this idea off in a matter of hours.

I didn't say I didn't like your compromise Frank, but this isn't a bargaining table with me alone. It's an open discussion where people share thier thought and concerns on the topic.

I'm interested to hear how others think about this.

[Deleted]

Apr 14, 2016 17:11:16 GMT -5 @eric said:

I would be nice to hear from other GMs before quickly writing this idea off in a matter of hours.

I didn't say I didn't like your compromise Frank, but this isn't a bargaining table with me alone. It's an open discussion where people share thier thought and concerns on the topic.

I'm interested to hear how others think about this.

I'm not saying you don't have any merit bringing this topic and I have no problem letting others talk before we close this topic. But it's a tad annoying that every time we have new gm someone bring this topic. Like many mention that this was a important detail that was implanted from the get go for a reason which was to give us flexibility with our line up. Some knew how to use it better then others but why punish them ? To create balance ? You know that there will also have a weak team that will finish last every year or most. Also we implanted a rule to forbid anyone to stash nhler to tank. It's not the same stashing nhler to have flexibility to compete. By the way Eric, if you or anyone would stash let's say Evander Kane from the get go and dress a nhler that is not playing, that gm we get a pm sent to them and be giving a week to fix his line up. If he didn't then he would be fine and so on.


Also We may have too much flexibility but it's better then none at all. SO now I'll let others speak their mind about this topic.

[Deleted]

To clarify Frank, I didnt say scratch Evander Kane for a non roster player. I said I will place my top players like pacioretty in the minors and replace them with guys like Mike Richards. Nhl roster players who produce low points.

That's my plan anyway with the rules the way they currently are. I want to be competitive just like you but I realize the time it will take to get there. I can speed things up by tanking for a few years and taking a high draft pick. This way I won't have to trade away any of my top players for prospects and can simply put them up from the minors until I am ready to compete.

We just scratch players in the minors for different reasons. All within the rules.

[Deleted]

There are some guys who understand the importance of overall league health but you will always have guys who want their cake and eat it too. The rules are okay if you are competing but if you are bad and use it to your advantage there will be an uproar.

Only way I see your purposed idea having a shot at working is a gradual phase in over a couple of years b/c of the loss in value. It's an interesting concept but I doubt there will be much headway made in this area until everyone puts the good of the league ahead of their own good.

[Deleted]

Apr 14, 2016 17:54:32 GMT -5 @eric said:

To clarify Frank, I didnt say scratch Evander Kane for a non roster player. I said I will place my top players like pacioretty in the minors and replace them with guys like Mike Richards. Nhl roster players who produce low points.

That's my plan anyway with the rules the way they currently are. I want to be competitive just like you but I realize the time it will take to get there. I can speed things up by tanking for a few years and taking a high draft pick. This way I won't have to trade away any of my top players for prospects and can simply put them up from the minors until I am ready to compete.

We just scratch players in the minors for different reasons. All within the rules.

Tanking is not allowed here. If we know that you are tanking by not playing Max Pac when healthy you'll e penalize. No way in hell will let anyone tank on purpose.

[Deleted]

I don't want to tank. I want to win. There is no rule that says I can't chose what player to put in my line up. All I have to do is meet games played limit. The current rules allow for this so I will do it as I need to so what is best for my team.

If you manually changed one of my line ups based on player preference, then why even show up to play here? I want to set my own line ups and I'll do it as the rules allow. There is no rule that says who I dress and who I can't.

[Deleted]

Apr 14, 2016 19:38:50 GMT -5 @eric said:

I don't want to tank. I want to win. There is no rule that says I can't chose what player to put in my line up. All I have to do is meet games played limit. The current rules allow for this so I will do it as I need to so what is best for my team.

If you manually changed one of my line ups based on player preference, then why even show up to play here? I want to set my own line ups and I'll do it as the rules allow. There is no rule that says who I dress and who I can't.

Sorry but I'm talking with Dave and Matt about it. When you were gone, a gm was doing what you are saying you want to do and Dave said that tanking was not aloud. So if I see you put Mike Richard and bench Max Pac then for sure you'll be warned and penalize if you don't act accordingly. Like I said nothing is officially until I talk it out with the boys. I'll quit this league before letting anyone tanking on purpose just because Mr. want a better position. Do you see anyone do that in the NHL ? Fuck No, so why would you do that in here. Just c'mon sense.

[Dave (PLK)]

I don't think tanking is the point here. I think it's about finding some balance between the top and bottom teams. I do agree with Eric and Will that it's important for the league as a whole that we come up with some sort of solution.

[Vancouver Canucks]

This is a 24 team league meaning that there is always going to be approximately 100 serviceable players sitting in the minors. The question for me is how do we make some of those players assessable to everyone without penalizing the teams that legitimately trade for depth. Answer that question fairly and you have my vote.

Eric has made a reasonable suggestion. I do not agree that all players need to be moved to waivers but a few should be.

[Tbone (Kelowna)]

Apr 14, 2016 16:17:09 GMT -5 @eric said:

Frank you have to look at the other side of the coin.

Rich teams stock pile players in the minors to help them win. Consider the opposite: stocking minors with elite nhl talent to lose and get a top draft pick. What incentive is there to finish middle of the pack? None.

I for one am strongly considering stashing my NHLers in the minors if it is still allowed by next season. I will replace my elite NHLers with scrubs to reach GP limits. It is within the rules so why not.

Eric, weren't you part of the committee that decided to implement this waiver free playoff rule during the inaugural draft that made this stock piling in the minors possible.  As I recall, you were one of the first to take advantage of it drafting previously undraftable overpaid guys like Campbell and Heatley (both paid 7M+ at the time) in the 30th round or something like that.  I did raise the concern at the time that this created an obvious opportunity for stockpiling of assets that could increase the separation between the haves and have nots - it was pretty obvious strategy for me.

The problem with stashing elite talent in the minors is that anyone can do it, even me.  I'm sure I can do it a lot better since I have a ton of waiver free players that I can easily roster.  Heck, I can stash all my top players all season to finish around 16th, then bring them all up for the playoffs to let them run amuck and get the best of both words, a much better draft pick and also a great chance at the championship.  

[zigzag (Zagreb)]

Here are some thoughts from middle of the pack team...
In first year I struggled to fill even 20 spots on the weekly roster with regular NHLers. Some weeks I didn't even make it. But it was my fault, my bad initial draft, and there was no one to blame but myself. And after two years, and some draft picks and trades, I have now 10-15 players in minors that played more or less regularly in NHL this season. Not star players but I can use some of them. Problem one solved!!.. And after solving this problem, now I should lose some of those players? Sorry, but I do not agree. What should be next then? Limit on goals scored in season, assists? Rules are same for everyone, it takes some time for some of us to understand them, but as I said, it's not someone others fault that saw what should he do before me.
About tanking... I know it is not allowed, but even if it is, I can't understand why on earth would someone take Ls whole year to have a chance for high pick? And then what, take a player who fails to become a star??? And then again take Ls??? I do not plan to spend years here losing if I don't have to and waiting for superstars...
I don't think our rules are perfect, but changing to many of them each summer is also not good at all IMO.

[Deleted]

I applied the suggested "use 'em or lose'em" rules to Kelowna's roster in fantrax for the 2015/16 season, and this is who he would have lost to waivers:

Michael Backlund
Kyle Brodziak
Jon Merrill

Maybe you guys could all take at look at your own rosters and see who you would have lost? Post them here so we see how effected we all would really be by these changes.

Go to your team page
Select "Fantasy Team" stats
Select Date range of 2015-10-07 to 2016-03-06
Select players with zero games played and see if they qualify for waivers based on the rules I suggested.

[Golden Seals]

Apr 15, 2016 5:40:15 GMT -5 zigzag (Zagreb) said:

Here are some thoughts from middle of the pack team...
In first year I struggled to fill even 20 spots on the weekly roster with regular NHLers. Some weeks I didn't even make it. But it was my fault, my bad initial draft, and there was no one to blame but myself. And after two years, and some draft picks and trades, I have now 10-15 players in minors that played more or less regularly in NHL this season. Not star players but I can use some of them. Problem one solved!!.. And after solving this problem, now I should lose some of those players? Sorry, but I do not agree. What should be next then? Limit on goals scored in season, assists? Rules are same for everyone, it takes some time for some of us to understand them, but as I said, it's not someone others fault that saw what should he do before me.

On the flip side you'd have a chance at getting more of these type players through waivers from other teams. Could have even solved the problem earlier, part of the problem is it shouldn't take two entire seasons to add some "more or less regular NHL players".

I'm also a middle of the pack team and had the same problem but no one ever really goes on waivers.