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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 21:33:44 GMT -5
Please correct my perception if it is incorrect. It seems some people are looking at changing goalie rules to accomodate the teams with poor goaltending. It also strikes me that these teams have poor goaltending through their own asset management, ie not drafting properly in the initial draft, or by choosing to trade away goaltending without have adequate assets to counter balance that move.
This misses the mark, to me. I think the general concern raised with respect to goalies has to do with ensuring there is a reasonable system to ensure some parity and competitive balance in the league. Eric has Fleury as a starting goalie and Vasilevskiy in the minors. I wouldn't exactly call that goalie poor. If anyone believes that Eric is raising this as a concern to gain a competitive advantage over other teams, all I can say is...I couldn't disagree more. He is concerned with keeping a reasonable level of parity in the league. And that concern is to ensure the league's long term survival. I get a kick out of people who react to any proposed rule change by stating how it will impact them specifically, without any consideration of how it will impact the league generally. In looking at the discrepancy between top and bottom teams, for such a new league, I have the feeling parity is something that will have to be addressed at some point. It wouldn't surprise me if some point we are talking about things like a salary cap for the minors, or getting rid of free waiver periods, etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 21:41:16 GMT -5
Never said anything about Eric, did I.
To sum it up in simplest terms possible: Teams are weak through their own actions. Every team had fair and equal opportunity to draft goalies. Teams traded away goalies. Those teams created their own goaltending problems. I am trying to understand why some people are trying to repair the errors that other teams consciously made. I am not against rule change for betterment of the league. I am interested in the root causes of the problem and whether a remedy is needed or deserved. In that I can truly formulate a final and educated opinion; rather than an initial response.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 22:24:34 GMT -5
Barrie, and the original league members, are you guys seeing more or less resistance to prospective rule changes now compared to earlier in the league's history?
As a relatively new member, I can only comment on what I've seen in my shorter history here, and to me there isn't just resistance to rule changes, but outright refusal.
I of course agree that the majority, even a super-majority (67% - 16 teams), should be in favour of rule changes before enacting them. I just get a bit nervous when I see comments to the effect of "it was like this from day 1, so it should stay that way."
I also partially agree with Denton. I think certain teams have definitely put themselves behind the eight ball with respect to goalies (all positions, really), but I wouldn't say it accounts for 100% of the talent disparity. I know someone here was counting on Mike Smith to be a solid piece of their core before this season started (too lazy to see who that is).
My feeling is, if you can't consistently field a tandem of goalies that each start once per week on average, the rules shouldn't protect you. I don't think 2 GP per week is a huge barrier, and if it is, get to work on fixing it.
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Post by Bruyns (Barrie) on Jan 9, 2015 1:18:02 GMT -5
Barrie, and the original league members, are you guys seeing more or less resistance to prospective rule changes now compared to earlier in the league's history? As a relatively new member, I can only comment on what I've seen in my shorter history here, and to me there isn't just resistance to rule changes, but outright refusal. I of course agree that the majority, even a super-majority (67% - 16 teams), should be in favour of rule changes before enacting them. I just get a bit nervous when I see comments to the effect of "it was like this from day 1, so it should stay that way." I also partially agree with Denton. I think certain teams have definitely put themselves behind the eight ball with respect to goalies (all positions, really), but I wouldn't say it accounts for 100% of the talent disparity. I know someone here was counting on Mike Smith to be a solid piece of their core before this season started (too lazy to see who that is). My feeling is, if you can't consistently field a tandem of goalies that each start once per week on average, the rules shouldn't protect you. I don't think 2 GP per week is a huge barrier, and if it is, get to work on fixing it. I do think there is less resistance since in the beginning everything was met by variations of "I would have drafted differently so you can't change things" we are further out from the draft now and have a decent amount of new GMs that didn't participate in that original draft. The rules weren't just created by brainstorming though, they are based off of a league that is active and in its 6th season. There are some fairly substantial differences in the rules and scoring, but the basis is taken from BBKL.ca. We are 24 teams and not 30 and had a fantasy draft rather than inherit NHL teams so things couldn't be identical, but it helped knowing the rules were adapted from a successful keeper league. BBKL is where Markham came from and a few other GMs are in it too, it is a little less democratic and they have the CC (competition committee) that discusses everything privately and makes decisions on changes and penalties without the input of the rest of the league. |
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Post by Bruyns (Barrie) on Jan 9, 2015 1:23:23 GMT -5
For example they switched the GP max from 150 to 125 to be waiver exempt and it wasn`t something I saw requested or discussed. It was just put in place before this season so if you had players between 126-150 games you were counting on being exempt then too bad since the CC decided to make the change and people just accept it and adjust accordingly.
Having to get majority approval can make changes more difficult, but this league was always meant to take everyone's opinions into account rather than be ruled by a few
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 6:15:05 GMT -5
My comment regarding goalie minimums wasn't to be overly onerous, I would be happy with a weekly minimum of 2 Goalie GP. I feel like 1 GP is not enough to warrant winning stats for an entire week when your team G's only played 1/7th of the time.
The weekly roster lock does pose some issues since you can't control what happens after Monday night, but I feel like some easily attainable standard should be imposed to at least weed out 1 start weeks. For anyone who plays fantasy baseball, I assume your leagues use a minimum pitcher innings count for the same reason. Awarding ERA, WHIP, K/9 to a team with 1 closer appearance would be silly. I see no difference with GAA & SV%.
I hear ya but what can we do about this?
Example: A IFFHL club running an NHL starter + a NHL backup. Imagine the Starter plays well one game and then is injured; keeping him out the rest of the week. the Back-up doesn't get to play that week. So that IFFHL club should be penalized and lose all goalie stats? I think there is two sides of that argument for sure.
Don't forget at time a team as only two schedule game. If the starter played one game and then the back up play the other one. What can you do if the guy own only the starter since the back up was claim off waiver during the season and Gibson is in the minor. So at times you'll see a team having one start. Also at times a team could have a strategy by starting one keeper lowering his game played since the team he s playing insure himself gp and w . So you focus yoursel on GAA and Save % . Why should that be illegal? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 6:27:52 GMT -5
Barrie, and the original league members, are you guys seeing more or less resistance to prospective rule changes now compared to earlier in the league's history? As a relatively new member, I can only comment on what I've seen in my shorter history here, and to me there isn't just resistance to rule changes, but outright refusal. I of course agree that the majority, even a super-majority (67% - 16 teams), should be in favour of rule changes before enacting them. I just get a bit nervous when I see comments to the effect of "it was like this from day 1, so it should stay that way." I also partially agree with Denton. I think certain teams have definitely put themselves behind the eight ball with respect to goalies (all positions, really), but I wouldn't say it accounts for 100% of the talent disparity. I know someone here was counting on Mike Smith to be a solid piece of their core before this season started (too lazy to see who that is). My feeling is, if you can't consistently field a tandem of goalies that each start once per week on average, the rules shouldn't protect you. I don't think 2 GP per week is a huge barrier, and if it is, get to work on fixing it. I do think there is less resistance since in the beginning everything was met by variations of "I would have drafted differently so you can't change things" we are further out from the draft now and have a decent amount of new GMs that didn't participate in that original draft. The rules weren't just created by brainstorming though, they are based off of a league that is active and in its 6th season. There are some fairly substantial differences in the rules and scoring, but the basis is taken from BBKL.ca. We are 24 teams and not 30 and had a fantasy draft rather than inherit NHL teams so things couldn't be identical, but it helped knowing the rules were adapted from a successful keeper league. BBKL is where Markham came from and a few other GMs are in it too, it is a little less democratic and they have the CC (competition committee) that discusses everything privately and makes decisions on changes and penalties without the input of the rest of the league. Sorry but I help create this league with Dave and the idea didn't come from any form of BBKL. It as nothing to do with that league. Puck buddies is a small brother to BBKL but not this one. It all started when the other league crash because of a guy name Scott cheated ( from Bbkl ) and he destroy the league. So I pm Dave and ask if he wanted to start a new league and the rest is history. Even the cap came from me which I said we should add 10% to the nhl cap hit since we are 4/5 of the NHL and 20% would have been too much. The stats we are using may be similar but it end there. |
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Post by Bruyns (Barrie) on Jan 9, 2015 11:20:41 GMT -5
I do think there is less resistance since in the beginning everything was met by variations of "I would have drafted differently so you can't change things" we are further out from the draft now and have a decent amount of new GMs that didn't participate in that original draft. The rules weren't just created by brainstorming though, they are based off of a league that is active and in its 6th season. There are some fairly substantial differences in the rules and scoring, but the basis is taken from BBKL.ca. We are 24 teams and not 30 and had a fantasy draft rather than inherit NHL teams so things couldn't be identical, but it helped knowing the rules were adapted from a successful keeper league. BBKL is where Markham came from and a few other GMs are in it too, it is a little less democratic and they have the CC (competition committee) that discusses everything privately and makes decisions on changes and penalties without the input of the rest of the league. Sorry but I help create this league with Dave and the idea didn't come from any form of BBKL. It as nothing to do with that league. Puck buddies is a small brother to BBKL but not this one. It all started when the other league crash because of a guy name Scott cheated ( from Bbkl ) and he destroy the league. So I pm Dave and ask if he wanted to start a new league and the rest is history. Even the cap came from me which I said we should add 10% to the nhl cap hit since we are 4/5 of the NHL and 20% would have been too much. The stats we are using may be similar but it end there. I don't know what you are talking about Frank. The entire CBA was copy pasted from BBKL since Scott took it from there and then a few tweaks were made. When the whole CBA, rules and scoring other than goalie minutes played came from BBKL it is hard to say no ideas came from it. I was also involved from day one when the league was created which is why all 3 of us are admin. This league is much different than BBKL because of the GMs we have and the way things are done, but there is no denying it is based off that league and a league of this format wasn't your idea since you didn't write the CBA it was copy pasted from Scott who stole it from BBKL. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 11:36:44 GMT -5
@thenudge: how does someone "cheat" in fantasy hockey? Just curious!
@sully: "Teams are weak through their own actions. Every team had fair and equal opportunity to draft goalies." A few points: first, 11 out of 24 GMs were not around to draft goalies. There's been almost 50% turn-over in GMs, with some teams already on their 4th manager. So when you look at the two most recent GMs (Canners and Calgary), for example, I don't think it's fair to say it's their fault they don't have a starting goalie. [The same could be said for the Long Island franchise.] Second, (and this is my interpretation/opinion, not a fact). When I joined this league, I asked why there was a 110 max GP limit on goalies. I was told this was put in the original rules to prevent goalie hoarding. So it appears to me that when the league was designed, it was with the intention to ensure that we didn't end up with a situation of a bunch of teams not being able to start any goalies week after week. Not even two years into this league, I think there may be a view among some that the max 110 limit did not work out as intended.
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Post by Bruyns (Barrie) on Jan 9, 2015 11:39:27 GMT -5
@thenudge: how does someone "cheat" in fantasy hockey? Just curious!
@sully: "Teams are weak through their own actions. Every team had fair and equal opportunity to draft goalies." A few points: first, 11 out of 24 GMs were not around to draft goalies. There's been almost 50% turn-over in GMs, with some teams already on their 4th manager. So when you look at the two most recent GMs (Canners and Calgary), for example, I don't think it's fair to say it's their fault they don't have a starting goalie. [The same could be said for the Long Island franchise.] Second, (and this is my interpretation/opinion, not a fact). When I joined this league, I asked why there was a 110 max GP limit on goalies. I was told this was put in the original rules to prevent goalie hoarding. So it appears to me that when the league was designed, it was with the intention to ensure that we didn't end up with a situation of a bunch of teams not being able to start any goalies week after week. Not even two years into this league, I think there may be a view among some that the max 110 limit did not work out as intended.
He was suspected of cheating by running two accounts and then making lopsided trades that helped his one team. When called out on it rather than try to defend himself he just deleted the whole league and disappeared. This was after a week or two and a bunch of rounds of the fantasy draft already finished so people were pretty annoyed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 11:46:52 GMT -5
OMFG, I don't know if that is hilarious, or just really, really, really sad.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 11:52:27 GMT -5
That certainly takes balls. Some acting. And alot of free time.
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Post by Dave (PLK) on Jan 9, 2015 12:21:56 GMT -5
OMFG, I don't know if that is hilarious, or just really, really, really sad.
very sad indeed - to have to cheat to try and win a free fantasy hockey league. |
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Post by Dave (PLK) on Jan 9, 2015 12:23:18 GMT -5
Sorry but I help create this league with Dave and the idea didn't come from any form of BBKL. It as nothing to do with that league. Puck buddies is a small brother to BBKL but not this one. It all started when the other league crash because of a guy name Scott cheated ( from Bbkl ) and he destroy the league. So I pm Dave and ask if he wanted to start a new league and the rest is history. Even the cap came from me which I said we should add 10% to the nhl cap hit since we are 4/5 of the NHL and 20% would have been too much. The stats we are using may be similar but it end there. I don't know what you are talking about Frank. The entire CBA was copy pasted from BBKL since Scott took it from there and then a few tweaks were made. When the whole CBA, rules and scoring other than goalie minutes played came from BBKL it is hard to say no ideas came from it. I was also involved from day one when the league was created which is why all 3 of us are admin. This league is much different than BBKL because of the GMs we have and the way things are done, but there is no denying it is based off that league and a league of this format wasn't your idea since you didn't write the CBA it was copy pasted from Scott who stole it from BBKL. Matt is right Frank... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 21:13:16 GMT -5
I don't know what you are talking about Frank. The entire CBA was copy pasted from BBKL since Scott took it from there and then a few tweaks were made. When the whole CBA, rules and scoring other than goalie minutes played came from BBKL it is hard to say no ideas came from it. I was also involved from day one when the league was created which is why all 3 of us are admin. This league is much different than BBKL because of the GMs we have and the way things are done, but there is no denying it is based off that league and a league of this format wasn't your idea since you didn't write the CBA it was copy pasted from Scott who stole it from BBKL. Matt is right Frank... Sorry if I took anything away to what Matt did to this league. I was simply saying that I was the one that wrote to Dave about starting the league from scratch and he made me his right hand and then added Matt. Also I didn't know we copy paste the BBKL rule book. I just feel our structure and the stats a tad different then BBKL. Also at least in this league everyone as a voice. I'm over BBKL and I pray this league live for ever or at least surpass BBKL. |
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