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Post by Tbone (Kelowna) on May 4, 2014 9:46:15 GMT -5
One of the problems I see this league potentially facing is the quickly widening in total asset value between teams, which can be one of the biggest threats to its long term longevity. Of course this is natural in any league, but think this can become a lot more rapid (and more of a problem) in our league setup, given the diverse nature of our community and the more restricted nature of picking up new players.
One source of this asset imbalance I believe comes from the waiver picks that some teams don't make us of. To potentially address this, I propose that we give the 'non-playoff teams' for each year the 'option' to exchange any of their 'own' waiver picks for entry picks for the same year and in priority of the waiver picks. Maybe even add in an extra pick for the 1st/2nd waivers as those are seemingly more valuable:
eg.
1st Waiver -> converts to 1st Entry (end of round) + 2nd Entry (end of round)
2nd Waiver -> converts to 2nd Entry (end of round) + 3rd Entry (end of round)
3rd Waiver -> converts to 3rd Entry (start of round)
4th Waiver -> converts to 4th Entry (start of round)
(or some other agreed upon fair value - of course the value is key here, as don't want to give too much value such that teams tank to NOT make the playoffs to gain this option)
Yes, this may devalue a bit some of the entry picks, but given this advantage is only given to the non-playoff teams which supposedly need the most help, think that should be alright. IMO, we need to focus more on changes that give the teams at the lower end of the spectrum more of an advantage to be competitive more quickly.
And maybe only start this in 2015 so everybody is on the same page, as some teams already traded their waiver picks this year.
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Post by Bruyns (Barrie) on May 4, 2014 10:23:14 GMT -5
I'm fine with something like this for the future, the bottom teams will have the top waiver picks so it might not make sense to trade it for a late 1st when many never make an impact in the NHL. We haven't even had a waiver draft yet so lets see what type of assets those teams draft this season and then get their opinion later if they would have preferred a late 1st.
If we are trying to make the bottom teams competitive more quickly one would think a 1-5 waiver pick would accomplish that a lot faster than a 25-30 entry pick that would be at least 2-3 years away if they ever make the NHL.
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Post by Dave (PLK) on May 4, 2014 11:49:36 GMT -5
The only thing about this, is you are exchanging a "known player" for 2 "unknowns"
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Post by Tbone (Kelowna) on May 4, 2014 17:39:06 GMT -5
Like I said the value comparison is key here, so can probably discuss further to get some more opinions and adjust from there, if this is of any interest to the league overall. Perhaps change the first two to starting from 9th pick instead (or some other pick point)? So:
1st Waiver -> converts to 1st Entry (starting from 9th pick of rnd) + 2nd Entry (starting from 9th pick of rnd)
2nd Waiver -> converts to 2nd Entry (starting from 9th pick of rnd) + 3rd Entry (starting from 9th pick of rnd)
3rd Waiver -> converts to 3rd Entry (starting from 1st pick of rnd)
4th Waiver -> converts to 4th Entry (starting from 1st pick of rnd)
One key point is that in trading these waiver picks, those holding existing waiver picks will suddenly be more valuable, so it does make sense that their equivalent Entry picks are devalued a bit.
Again, it is just an option, and those teams that see more value in their waiver pick(s) can just keep them. Main goal is to provide a bit more consistent valuation of these waiver picks overall, given that their value seems to vary widely depending on who you talk to.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 17:44:30 GMT -5
2015 entry is so deep. 1st rnd waiver next year is peanuts to a 1st entry.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 17:47:50 GMT -5
Teams at the bottom of the pile are there for a reason. It didn't just happen. Their reward in high entry picks. We should just leave it at that
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Post by Vancouver Canucks on May 4, 2014 17:59:51 GMT -5
Teams at the bottom of the pile are there for a reason. It didn't just happen. Their reward in high entry picks. We should just leave it at that I agree |
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Post by Tbone (Kelowna) on May 4, 2014 18:25:30 GMT -5
There you go, there's the discrepancy in valuation of waiver picks right there. Again, this is for the longer term view of the league in general. Yes, teams are at the bottom for a reason, and it probably doesn't quite seem fair to reward them when we spend so much effort building our teams to gain that extra advantage. But then again, have to think about the long term interests of the league - that's why this shouldn't be seen as a reward, but more of just fair valuation exchange - again, keep in mind that the waiver picks given up will increase the value of existing waiver picks for the rest of us. If 2015 is such an exceptional year, maybe lower the starting pick range and increase it for 2016.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 18:53:51 GMT -5
My preference would be to have this discussion after the waiver draft. Then will we see just how many waiver picks are used versus passed on, and we will also see what is left in the waiver pool. My suspicion is that waiver picks in the 3rd and 4th round will be almost useless...
I'd certainly keep an open mind to this, as you are coming at this from a perspective about what is good long-run for league parity. I just think we'd have a more informed discussion once we see how the 1st waiver draft plays out.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 19:32:53 GMT -5
Teams at the bottom of the pile are there for a reason. It didn't just happen. Their reward in high entry picks. We should just leave it at that I agree, we shouldn't try to modify this even tho it was well done by Mr. Kelowna. Just leave it as it is now. |
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Post by ltcompton (Red Army) on May 5, 2014 9:29:27 GMT -5
There you go, there's the discrepancy in valuation of waiver picks right there. Again, this is for the longer term view of the league in general. Yes, teams are at the bottom for a reason, and it probably doesn't quite seem fair to reward them when we spend so much effort building our teams to gain that extra advantage. But then again, have to think about the long term interests of the league - that's why this shouldn't be seen as a reward, but more of just fair valuation exchange - again, keep in mind that the waiver picks given up will increase the value of existing waiver picks for the rest of us. If 2015 is such an exceptional year, maybe lower the starting pick range and increase it for 2016. I'd be in favor of waiver pick exchange for entry draft pick on the following terms: Example: the team with waiver draft pick #5 overall, wants to exchange that pick for an entry draft pick. He can exchange that 1st round waiver draft pick into a 2nd round draft pick, with that pick falling after all of the regular 2nd round entry draft picks had been made. This would make that pick #49 overall. If the pick being exchanged is a 2nd round waiver draft pick, then it gets exchanged for a pick at the end of round 3 in the entry draft. This should help long-term re-building if that is the GM's strategy but is not particularly punitive to the balance of teams. |
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Post by Dave (PLK) on May 5, 2014 10:20:17 GMT -5
you think going from the 5th overall waiver pick to #49 in the entry draft would IMPROVE a team??
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Post by Tbone (Kelowna) on May 5, 2014 11:01:44 GMT -5
Again, valuation on waiver picks is going to vary widely as expected, some value them highly, some value them low - so if nothing else this should give everyone a better idea of what to expect - both in terms of obtaining picks and selling picks, to not buy too high or sell too low - but probably somewhere in the middle. Again, just looking to establish fair valuation, which is set by all of us collectively.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 12:30:58 GMT -5
Again, valuation on waiver picks is going to vary widely as expected, some value them highly, some value them low - so if nothing else this should give everyone a better idea of what to expect - both in terms of obtaining picks and selling picks, to not buy too high or sell too low - but probably somewhere in the middle. Again, just looking to establish fair valuation, which is set by all of us collectively. I dislike at the idea of having a establish value for picks or waiver picks. I feel it's our job to fetch the most we can for our picks and not the least or something in the middle. We as gm have a duty to be aware of the value of our asset and nto be told what's the value of this or that. I never like that thought process, eric tried that at the start of last year. I know you only mean well Mr. Kelowna but I just don't want a mesuring stick for the value of everything to help us gm. Instead the gm shouldn't be afraid of asking asking help outside of the league or call a friend. lol!! |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 12:35:30 GMT -5
I agree with Frank. I am open to giving anyone advice in trades or drafting. I would want to help because it makes our league more competitive and fun for all. I also don't want a handful of teams of each end of the spectrum thriving or suffering. Jimmy wants the same, but he is looking at it a different way.
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